Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/16/2004 03:36 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
           SB 190-KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SCOTT  OGAN called the Senate  Resources Standing Committee                                                             
meeting  to  order at  3:36  p.m.  Present were  Senators  Thomas                                                               
Wagoner,  Fred Dyson,  Kim Elton,  Georgianna  Lincoln and  Chair                                                               
Scott Ogan.  Senator Ralph  Seekins arrived  at 3:37  and Senator                                                               
Ben  Stevens was  excused. The  first order  of business  to come                                                               
before the committee was SB 190.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  AMY  SEITZ,  Staff  to   Senator  Thomas  Wagoner,  sponsor,                                                               
explained that  the two main purposes  of SB 190 are  to transfer                                                               
lands to the  Kenai River Special Management Area  (KRSMA) and to                                                               
change the makeup  of the advisory board. The new  lands would be                                                               
put into  KRSMA so  they can  be managed by  people who  focus on                                                               
maintaining  the Kenai  River system,  an important  resource for                                                               
the whole  state. She related  that the KRSMA was  established in                                                               
1984  to protect  the Kenai  River  system and  covers about  105                                                               
million  square miles.  SB 190  adds 536  acres of  land acquired                                                               
from funds from  the Exxon Valdez oil spill settlement  and a few                                                               
parcels that were left out of the original 1984 bill.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ  said SB 190  would change  the makeup of  the advisory                                                               
board to be  more of a citizen's board by  changing the state and                                                               
federal agency members to ex-officio members.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked her if anyone hates this bill.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ replied that she didn't think anyone hated it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THOMAS  WAGONER said that various  quarters have resisted                                                               
adding  acreage, but  these  lands are  important  at this  time.                                                               
Other  bills  might  add  more acreage  later  if  enough  public                                                               
support could be mustered.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  RALPH  SEEKINS  asked  which  activities  would  not  be                                                               
allowed on this land under this  bill. He thought that it removed                                                               
the mineral estate, like gold  mines and gravel pits. He wondered                                                               
what would be protected.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SEITZ  responded  that  those  activities  are  not  allowed                                                               
currently under the Exxon Valdez Oil Settlement (EVOS).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER observed  that putting lands into  the state park                                                               
is the  ultimate protection next  to proclaiming it  a wilderness                                                               
area. Some  of the parcels are  down-river where a boat  ramp has                                                               
been considered.  Putting in a boat  ramp would be tougher  to do                                                               
on park land.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked if he is  talking about a park, because the bill                                                               
refers to the Kenai River Special Management Area.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ clarified that KRSMA  is managed though the Division of                                                               
Parks in the Department of Natural Resources (DNR).                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  said he  wanted  to  make  sure there  were  no                                                               
unintended consequences.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  didn't see any  unintended consequences  at this                                                               
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked  if the land that was purchased  with EVOS money                                                               
was mostly privately held.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER   responded  that  these  lands   were  proposed                                                               
additions in the original bill from three years ago.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ affirmed that all  the properties acquired through EVOS                                                               
were state lands.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Senator Wagoner  to expand on the reasoning                                                               
behind  going to  a more  public membership  board. She  noted an                                                               
article in which a member  disagreed with the proposed makeup due                                                               
to  his concern  about  special interest  groups controlling  the                                                               
board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER responded  that,  due to  lack of  participation                                                               
through absentees  or whatever  on this  board, the  only special                                                               
interests  are the  agency representatives.  The agencies  should                                                               
continue to  attend and  have input, but  that's their  job; it's                                                               
the citizens'  job to have the  final vote and the  final say. He                                                               
professed:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     That  board  will  represent the  three  municipalities                                                                    
     that are on  the river - basically  the Kenai Peninsula                                                                    
     Borough, the  City of Kenai  and the City  of Soldotna.                                                                    
     Other members  are members  at large  - members  of the                                                                    
     guide  industry,  members  of  the  commercial  fishing                                                                    
     industry. I just feel more  comfortable with that board                                                                    
     and them  having the say,  not the agencies. I  see too                                                                    
     many times, the agencies  tend to dominate meetings and                                                                    
     dominate the outcome.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN followed  up saying that she  had heard criticism                                                               
that  there are  no  municipal representatives  currently on  the                                                               
board from Seward, Homer or  Anchorage, but that membership would                                                               
be  confined to  adjacent management  areas. She  asked if  those                                                               
people are precluded from serving on the board.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER responded  that he  didn't quite  understand her                                                               
question, but stated that Seward,  Homer and Anchorage are not on                                                               
the Kenai River; and the City  of Soldotna, the City of Kenai and                                                               
the  Borough are  the  municipalities that  are  adjacent to  the                                                               
river and the properties. He claimed further:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     We  didn't see  any great  need  for them  to have  the                                                                    
     voting     representation.     Seward    would     have                                                                    
     representation     through    the     borough-appointed                                                                    
     representative -  and so  would, basically,  Homer, but                                                                    
     Homer is about 72 miles  from the Kenai River and these                                                                    
     properties.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LINCOLN  had  information indicating  that  adjacent  to                                                               
these waters  are 15  state parks, subunits,  lands owned  by the                                                               
cities,  the  borough  and the  federal  government  and  private                                                               
Native lands.  She asked how  many members  are on the  board and                                                               
how would one go about becoming a member of it.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER answered that the  board membership rotates every                                                               
two years.  He offered the  name of  current members and  a brief                                                               
comment about each.  Joe Connors, who used to  teach at Anchorage                                                               
Community College, is now a  guide and was a commercial fisherman                                                               
in  Cook  Inlet  for  years.  Ted Wellman  is  an  attorney  from                                                               
Anchorage and a very active member  on the board. Paul Shadura is                                                               
a  commercial  fisherman and  Native  leader.  Jim Golden  is  an                                                               
outfitter using the  Kenai River. David Westerman  is from Cooper                                                               
Landing.  Roland Maw  is the  Executive Director  of United  Cook                                                               
Inlet Drift  Association. Ken  Lancaster, the  representative who                                                               
started this bill four years ago, is  a past mayor of the City of                                                               
Soldotna. Jeff  King is a  life-long Alaskan sport  fishing guide                                                               
on the Kenai River. He didn't know Richard Hahn.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON asked if there were  restrictions now on the use of                                                               
EVOS  lands and  were  they  open to  oil  and  gas leasing,  for                                                               
instance.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PETE PANARESE,  Division of  Parks  and Outdoor  Recreation,                                                               
DNR, answered that section 3  amends AS 41.21.502(c) referring to                                                               
the Kenai River Special Management  Area. The EVOS lands that are                                                               
currently outside the  management area are not  available for oil                                                               
and gas exploration.  When they are included in  KRSMA, they fall                                                               
under its umbrella.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON clarified  that those lands are  currently not open                                                               
to oil  and gas leasing,  but if they  were added to  the special                                                               
management area, they would be.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. PANARESE affirmed that.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said  it seemed to him that changing  the makeup of                                                               
the board is  a rather substantive change, because  it makes some                                                               
government members ex-officio  while municipal government members                                                               
retain their ability to vote. Even  more to the point, section 4,                                                               
which  says a  majority of  the  voting members  of the  advisory                                                               
group  shall be  residents  of the  Kenai  Peninsula Borough,  is                                                               
creating  a  couple of  classes  of  people. For  instance,  some                                                               
fisheries guides that operate on  the river live in Anchorage and                                                               
it seems that  a majority of the users of  the river are probably                                                               
from  outside the  borough.  Also, when  the  majority of  voting                                                               
members have  to be residents  of the  borough a second  class of                                                               
user is  created. He asked  what is envisioned by  creating those                                                               
different classes of people.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  answered  that  that  language  is  already  in                                                               
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON granted  that that language is  already in statute,                                                               
but pointed out that it is being perpetuated here.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     It  just  seems to  me  that  you are  disenfranchising                                                                    
     river  guides  that  live in  Anchorage  or  that  live                                                                    
     elsewhere   outside   of   the   borough   and   you're                                                                    
     disenfranchising many of the users  of the Kenai River,                                                                    
     those  people who  live outside  the  borough who  come                                                                    
     down to enjoy one of the natural wonders of your area.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER responded:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     We  don't preclude  them from  serving. We  just say  a                                                                    
     majority  of them  will be  from  the Kenai  Peninsula.                                                                    
     That doesn't  exclude them from  serving in one  of the                                                                    
     seats  that's  not  on the  Kenai  Peninsula....  I  do                                                                    
     believe in  local control - as  much as you can  get to                                                                    
     local control. Those people that  live on the Peninsula                                                                    
     have a  vested interest -  a lot  of them a  lot longer                                                                    
     than any other people  around and especially the cities                                                                    
     and  municipalities  have  a  vested  interest  in  the                                                                    
     business  people  in  Soldotna and  Kenai.  That's  the                                                                    
     lifeblood  of  a  lot  of   businesses.  It's  not  the                                                                    
     lifeblood of a lot of  beds and breakfasts in Anchorage                                                                    
     or the  Mat Valley or  any other  place, but it  is the                                                                    
     lifeblood  of a  lot of  bed and  breakfasts and  guide                                                                    
     businesses  in Kenai.  I don't  think you'll  find that                                                                    
     there  are a  lot of  guides  that guide  in the  Kenai                                                                    
     River that  live in Anchorage  - not nearly as  many as                                                                    
     you might think.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS said  it  looked  like the  attempt  was to  add                                                               
acreage to  the already  existing management  area. He  asked, if                                                               
those lands are  open to oil and gas leasing,  are there setbacks                                                               
or  other  statutory  requirements  that  would  apply  to  those                                                               
activities for reasonable protection of the river.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN replied  that state  law already  delineates 500  ft.                                                               
setbacks from rivers and lakes;  mitigation measures are in every                                                               
plan of operation  that is reviewed by the  Department of Natural                                                               
Resources (DNR), the Department  of Conservation (DEC) and Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  said  he  wanted  to make  sure  that  when  EVOS                                                               
purchased  the land  there weren't  stipulations in  the contract                                                               
that are being set  aside by opening up that land  to oil and gas                                                               
leasing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PANARESE answered  that he  wasn't clear  on that  and would                                                               
have to get back to him on it.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON said  he wanted  to  know what  the conditions  of                                                               
purchase were and what is really allowed in section 3.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN said  he  also had  a question  about  section 3  and                                                               
interpreted it  to mean the  land would be  open for oil  and gas                                                               
leasing, but not for mining.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PANARESE  replied  that  was  his  understanding,  also.  He                                                               
thought the  Legislature had the  use of directional  drilling in                                                               
mind, not actually putting facilities on park land.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if Senator  Wagoner was anticipating having                                                               
no travel costs for the citizen advisory boards.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  replied that had not  been the case in  the past                                                               
and he didn't foresee that changing.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  responded that the  reason that hasn't  been the                                                               
case in  the past is because  the agencies have paid  for it, but                                                               
it's different  when it's  applied to a  citizen group,  which is                                                               
why she  questioned it. She  asked if  there were any  letters of                                                               
support.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SEITZ replied  that they  didn't really  ask for  letters of                                                               
support, but they have one  from the Kenai Peninsula Borough that                                                               
supports the bill and opposes adding any other land to KRSMA.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  asked how  people  were  chosen for  the  current                                                               
board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ  answered that  the commissioner  of DNR  appoints them                                                               
from names that are submitted.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON asked if there  are designated seats for guides and                                                               
sport fishermen, etc.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. SEITZ replied that there weren't designated seats.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PANARESE added  that the  by-laws of  the board  require the                                                               
board to propose  three names. The public  member nominees submit                                                               
a short resume'  to the commissioner of DNR  and perhaps indicate                                                               
their  preference. The  commissioner then  appoints one  of them.                                                               
The government  members would be  appointed by  the commissioners                                                               
of the departments they represent.  The Fish and Wildlife Service                                                               
and Forest  Service would each  appoint their  representative, as                                                               
would the other  three branches of government local  to the Kenai                                                               
Peninsula.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said it  would be helpful to get a  copy of the by-                                                               
laws.  He  wanted  to  be  sure   they  would  not  end  up  with                                                               
municipality  people precluding  the  recreational  users of  the                                                               
river from being fully represented.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBERT  VALDATTA, member of  the Municipal Advisory  Panel on                                                               
Stranded  Gas in  Soldotna,  said  that the  bridge  is the  main                                                               
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked him how that  issue is relevant to  the present                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  asked him if  he was talking about  the proposed                                                               
bridge between  Sterling and Funny  River and the boat  ramp that                                                               
is a part of that project.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. VALDATTA  replied yes and  added that it was  being discussed                                                               
20 years ago.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  illuminated him  saying that  it is  still being                                                               
discussed. He  thought a lawsuit  was being filed by  some people                                                               
who live in a couple of  subdivisions on the road that was chosen                                                               
as the  preferred site.  However, he didn't  think this  bill was                                                               
relevant to those lands.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  thanked everyone for  their comments and said  SB 190                                                               
would be held for further work.                                                                                                 

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